Feeling out of sync with colleagues of other generations as you work on projects and in teams? Some people call this the generation gap in the workplace.

But here’s a secret — regardless of age, they’re probably a lot more like you than you might expect.

Today, 5 generations are in the workforce: Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, Baby Boomers, and the Silent Generation. While some motivations differ, they do share similar desires. Employees of all generations, for example, want to work on teams with people they trust and care about.

Creating a team dynamic that works for everyone is essential — and it can be done.

10 Tactics for Leading Across Generations

How to Bridge the Gap of a Multigenerational Workforce

We’ve compiled 10 tactics to address the generation gap in the workplace and help leaders look past the stereotypes and effectively lead across generations. The approaches here are adapted from over a decade of our research, including our research on emerging leaders, which is based on data from thousands of Gen Z and Millennial young professionals around the world; our book What Millennials Want From Work; and our white paper What Makes a Leader Effective?, which polled Boomers, Gen Xers, and Millennials. These are the keys to successfully leading a multigenerational workforce.

1. Learn from one another.

Older workers often have significant experience that can’t be learned in school, and younger team members usually appreciate it when that wisdom is shared. But being told that something needs to be done a particular way just because it’s “how things are done around here” will open the door to pushback. Those who’ve been in the workforce for a long time should recognize that, just because things have been done a certain way in the past, that doesn’t mean it’s the best way for the future.

There’s a stereotype that younger workers think they should be exempt from boring work. Older team members may remember “paying their dues” earlier in their careers and have no sympathy. But what if, working together, you could come up with alternatives to doing repetitive work, or at least find ways to reduce it considerably?

Younger employees, many of them digital natives, may have ideas or technology options that haven’t been explored, and more experienced employees have the knowledge and expertise to make new processes work. That’s why some organizations, recognizing the need to bridge the generation gap in the workplace, are beginning to partner their older and younger team members in formal or informal reverse mentoring arrangements.

2. Foster wellbeing.

Want to keep your organization competitive in retaining employees of all ages? Consider our best practices that support employee wellbeing and leading across generations. These include helping young workers nurture a broad network of relationships both inside and outside the office, and encouraging regular exercise and time for mindful reflection.

Remember to lead by example. “Walk and talk” meetings can help marry business with exercise, while a daily “out of office” email reply after work makes it clear that team members aren’t expected to be on call 24-7.

Workers of all generations report that they’re more likely to stay with their organizations if flexible schedules are allowed and remote working is supported. Employees of all ages are willing to work long hours but also want to have a life outside of work. Whether raising families, preparing for retirement, caring for elderly parents, or pursuing personal interests, employees often feel that their organizations forget that they have lives outside work.

3. Share values and show respect.

We often hear that younger people are disrespectful of older employees and people in authority. We also hear complaints that older people show no respect for younger talent and ideas. Many people think that older and younger people value vastly different things.

However, our research has shown that different generations actually have fairly similar values. For example, “family”  is the value chosen most frequently by people of all generations. Other widely shared values include the following:

• Integrity
• Achievement
• Love
• Competence
• Happiness
• Self-respect
• Wisdom
• Balance
• Responsibility

The reality is that everyone wants pretty much the same thing, which is for their organizations to cultivate a culture of respect — they just don’t define it in the same way. Some would argue this is really the secret to teamwork and leading a multigenerational workforce.

Our research shows that today’s young professionals also prioritize value alignment between their personally held beliefs and their organization’s mission and driving principles. Clearly defining and communicating what your organization stands for is an important way to deliver upon this. Also, take steps to show that you value the perspectives of the youngest members of your team, especially around issues such as equity, diversity, and inclusion.

4. Be a trustworthy leader.

By and large, people of all generations value trust in the workplace. At all levels, they trust the people they work with directly — such as bosses, peers, and direct reports — more than they trust their organizations. And people trust their organization more than they trust upper management.

What do different generations expect from their leaders? Conventional wisdom says older generations want a command-and-control type of leader and that younger generations want leaders who include them more in decision-making. But our research says that effective leadership is less about style and more about substance. People of all generations want leaders who are credible and trustworthy, above all else.

5. Promote psychological safety.

Our research study with Y20 found that 41% of young adults (ages 18–30) want to lead in the future. The top personal barrier getting in their way: psychological safety.

A psychologically safe workplace encourages workers of all ages to make meaningful contributions. Young professionals want a sense of belonging at work and to feel accepted for who they are, including those characteristics and perspectives that make them different from others. They also want encouragement to learn and grow — without fear of repercussions for asking questions or making mistakes.

To promote psychological safety at work, consider asking your senior leaders to share stories about mistakes they’ve made, or use organization-wide meetings or newsletters to share “failing forward” stories that encourage risk-taking. This transparency makes it clear across generations that missteps are an opportunity to deepen learning.

6. Communicate change.

The stereotype is that older people hate change and younger generations thrive on it, but these are inaccurate assumptions. In general, people from all generations are uncomfortable with change and can experience change fatigue. Resistance to change has nothing to do with age; it’s all about how much someone has to gain or lose with the change.

The best way to manage change and be a successful change leader is to communicate. Send out memos, host meetings, or implement an open-door policy that embraces communication. Make your team feel comfortable with asking questions and voicing concerns.

7. Break down silos.

The ability to build bridges — across an organization’s divisions and across a multigenerational workforce — is important. Successful leaders must help everyone learn how to span boundaries.

Help your young leaders view boundaries not as barriers, but as opportunities for new ways of working and collaborating. Ensure they understand the social aspects of their role and how to work through and with others to achieve results, regardless of age and other factors. One way to break down silos and lead across generations: Set aside time for colleagues of all ages to share their stories, including how their personal background and social identity influence the way they work.

8. Do the right things to retain talent.

It’s as easy to retain a young person as it is to retain an older one — if you do the right things. Just about everyone feels overworked and underpaid. People of all generations have the same ideas about what their organization can do to retain them. Employees want room to advance, respect and recognition, better quality of life, and fair compensation.

An audit of leadership representation — and whether multigenerational voices and perspectives are included when important decisions are made — is one thing to consider. By engaging a diverse cross-section of young employees in your analysis, you can broaden your perspective when leading a multigenerational workforce. After the audit and review, you’ll be poised to take informed steps to level-up access and make your talent management processes a lever for change.

9. Create a learning culture.

Everyone wants to learn — more than just about anything else. Learning and development were among the issues most frequently mentioned by study participants of all generations. Everyone wants to make sure they have the training necessary to do their current job well.

Leading across generations includes creating a learning culture that prioritizes and rewards gaining and sharing knowledge. You can also help employees create a personalized development roadmap that provides a clear understanding of what the organization needs, how their performance compares to peers, and which improvements they must make to support success. Building the core leadership skills needed in every role and career stage is another way to boost employee motivation and learning.

10. Build coaching skills.

Almost everyone wants a coach. We’ve heard that younger people are constantly asking for feedback and can’t get enough of it. We’ve also heard that older people don’t want any feedback at all. According to our research, everyone wants to know how they’re doing and wants to learn how to do better. Feedback can come in many forms, and people of all generations appreciate receiving it. Building coaching skills and a coaching culture at your organization can help.

Equipping everyone to hold coaching conversations can help create a stronger organizational culture for workers of all ages.

Leading a Multigenerational Workforce or Team: Final Thoughts

Our research shows that, fundamentally, people want the same things, no matter what generation they represent. So the so-called generation gap in the workplace is, in large part, the result of miscommunication and misunderstanding, fueled by common insecurities and the desire for clout. Successfully leading across generations is actually pretty straightforward.

So let go of your assumptions about the challenges of a multigenerational workforce, and spend more time developing your leaders of all ages.

Ready to Take the Next Step?

Support your multigenerational workforce by scaling leadership development across your organization. Partner with us on an enterprise solution, such as CCL Passport, that supports learning and growth for your leaders at every level.

The post Tactics for Leading Across Generations appeared first on CCL.

• Case Study

RPM International Builds a Culture of Feedback

CLIENT:	RPM International Inc, a $7.3 billion, multinational company with subsidiaries that are world leaders in specialty coatings, sealants and building materials, is known for such market-leading consumer brands as DAP, Rust-Oleum and Kwik Seal.
LOCATION:	Headquartered in Medina, Ohio
SIZE:	17,300 employees

Client Profile & Challenge

Consumers and professionals around the world trust RPM International’s brands to protect and preserve homes, workplaces, and even iconic landmarks like the Statue of Liberty.

But company leaders know it’s the people behind those products who make the $7.3 billion multinational company the success it is today.

“Our CEO likes to say, ‘We don’t make anything at corporate headquarters. All the making happens at our respective companies,’ ” says Randy McShepard, Chief Talent Officer at RPM. “Let’s be clear about that.”

Once a small, family-owned business, today RPM’s respective companies comprise a complex network of 80 business units and four operating groups. And with 17,300 associates working in more than 120 global facilities and the corporate office, effective communication can be challenging.

So when communication cropped up as a top concern on employee surveys a few years ago, CEO Frank C. Sullivan took note. Sullivan, whose grandfather founded the company’s forerunner to RPM in 1947, believes success depends on valuing the worth of every associate and their combined contributions. RPM’s core values — transparency, trust and respect — are foundational to its culture of doing business the right way for the right reasons.

“With a company our size, he was becoming more concerned about whether he really understood the pulse of our employees. Did he really know what they care about?” McShepard notes. “Are they loving coming to work every day or are they flight risks just waiting for the next opportunity because they don’t necessarily have strong connections or communication with their leaders, their peers, and the corporate office? While this type of assessment had been done at the group level, it had not been done across the entire company in comprehensive fashion.”

Solution

RPM International turned to a trusted partner, the Center for Creative Leadership (CCL)®, to meet its communication challenges head-on. The two had worked together before with positive results.

And CCL had just the right fit: a highly immersive and practical program called Better Conversations Every Day that is designed to build a coaching culture of feedback within all levels of an organization. Participants learn core behaviors and practice the types of candid conversations that build stronger relationships, fuel collaboration, and enable better business outcomes.

“When we were introduced to the Better Conversations Every Day model, we thought, if CCL is offering it, it’s probably worth taking a close look at. And that ended up being exactly the case,” McShepard recalls. “CCL gave us all the support that we needed to be bold enough to try to build a program from the ground up.”

RPM launched the program in 2020, starting with senior officers at corporate headquarters and the four operating groups.  Their enthusiasm for the BCE experience quickly cascaded throughout the company, McShepard said.

“All of the leaders got excited about it. So it wasn’t a tough sell to then go to our operating companies to say, ‘OK, this is what we now want you to do.’ “

Early on, RPM worked with CCL to get its own people trained as facilitators so the program could be scaled company-wide. These associates participated in CCL’s train-the-trainer certification process consisting of a series of asynchronous study lessons and three group sessions – including practice sessions delivering program content, followed by coaching and feedback. The training is designed to help internal trainers improve their facilitation skills, become intimately familiar with the program content, and gain confidence to deliver it by hands-on practice.

Shelly Wilson served on the company’s Global Organizational Leadership Development (GOLD) Team at the time and volunteered to be the in-house coordinator of the initiative.

The 8-hour workshop, offered in-person or live online, takes place several times a year, with 24 to 36 employees taking part in each session. Participants are broken into groups of 4 that each work with an assigned coach. They are grouped with associates they do not work for or with to encourage openness and vulnerability. Everyone is asked to bring real-life work issues to the table for the practice sessions.

Associates learn the skills necessary to grapple with difficult issues candidly. One such tool is CCL’s research-backed Situation-Behavior-Impact (SBI) model, which is proven to reduce both the anxiety of delivering feedback during challenging conversations and the defensiveness of the recipient. The method is simple and direct: capture and clarify the situation, describe the specific behaviors observed, and explain the impact of those behaviors.

“SBI is such a powerful tool, and it ties so well with listening to understand and asking powerful questions. All three of those are just so important,” Wilson says. “We really push the vulnerability and trust aspect of it, and that has made a big difference because people share more. The model really works.”

Results

The Better Conversations Every Day training has become so popular at RPM that new hires are lining up to participate in the next workshops. And RPM now is offering a 2-hour, virtual “refresher” course for associates who want to brush up on the skills they learned in the original workshop.

“We have trained 1,267 people to date and I have surveys for every single one of those,” Wilson notes. “And not one — not one — thought it wasn’t impactful and that it should not be scaled throughout the company.”

Indeed, 99% of participants report they can apply the knowledge and skills learned in BCE sessions to their jobs.

“Educational and paradigm shifting,” one associate wrote.

 “Empowering” and “Eye-opening,” wrote others.

Learn More

BY THE NUMBERS
Additional survey results are overwhelmingly positive:
98%	of participants are better able to listen to understand.
98%	of participants are better able to ask powerful questions.
97%	of participants are better able to challenge and support.

These results check a lot of boxes for McShepard. “All of that tells me as the Chief Talent Officer that this is a product that our associates are pleased with, that they see clear value in participating in it and they want more of it.”

Harrison Sturdivant, Strategic Business Partner at CCL, says of the partnership, “We’ve been on amazing journey of impact in service of RPM’s vision for a better and stronger culture around the world.  Working collaboratively with the team has been an honor and continues to build on CCL’s commitment to results that matter.” 

Investing in a feedback culture has proven to be a wise decision for RPM, McShepard says. So, too, is partnering with CCL.

“There’s a lot of great leadership organizations out there that do this work, but the professionalism and the precision that we’ve experienced with CCL puts them at the top of the heap in our book,” he says.

“We’re proud of our partnership with CCL and proud of how far we’ve come with BCE and the impact that is making on our company.
What more can we ask for?”

Participants Say

“CCL gave us all the support that we needed to be bold enough to try to build a program from the ground up.”

Randy McShepard

“We really push the vulnerability and trust aspect of it, and that has made a big difference because people share more. The model really works.” 

Shelly Wilson

“Educational and paradigm shifting” 

Program Participant

Partner With Us

We can work with you to build a culture of feedback which is key to improved communication within your organization. It all begins with better conversations every day, from the front desk to the corner office.

Learn More

| What to Explore Next

Better Culture Starts With Better Conversations

How to Coach People

| Related Solutions

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Better Conversations & Coaching

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The post RPM International Builds a Culture of Feedback appeared first on CCL.

Active listening requires you to listen attentively to a speaker, understand what they’re saying, respond and reflect on what’s being said, and retain the information for later. This keeps both listener and speaker actively engaged in the conversation.

Active listening and reflecting, responding, and giving feedback aren’t always easy. Here are some helpful active listening tips for managers:

• Pay close attention to the speaker’s behavior and body language to gain a better understanding of their message.
• Signal that you’re following along with visual cues like nodding and eye contact; ask clarifying questions to ensure your understanding.
• Avoid potential interruptions — from technology (e.g., phone or email notifications) and from humans (e.g., knocks on your door).
• Keep an open mind. Rather than evaluating the message and offering an opinion, simply make the speaker feel heard and validated.
• Confirm you’ve understood what the speaker has said by verifying your understanding.
• Be an attentive listener and have your toolkit of active listening techniques at the ready for whenever coaching conversations occur.

At CCL, we help leaders go beyond basic active listening skills so that they’re better equipped to truly listen to understand others — including the facts, feelings, and values that may be hidden behind the words actually being shared. At the organizational level, training people how to listen more effectively helps provide role models for the next generation of leaders and builds a workplace culture of truth and courage.

6 Active Listening Techniques

The Active Listening Skillset

Enhancing your active listening skill set involves more than just hearing someone speak. When you’re putting active listening skills to practice, you should be using these 6 techniques:

1. Pay attention.
2. Withhold judgment.
3. Reflect.
4. Clarify.
5. Summarize.
6. Share.

1. Pay attention.

One goal of active listening and being an effective listener is to set a comfortable tone that gives the speaker an opportunity to think and talk. Allow “wait time” before responding. Don’t cut the person off, finish their sentences, or start formulating your answer before they’ve finished. Pay attention to your body language as well as your frame of mind when engaging in active listening. Be focused on the moment, make eye contact, and operate from a place of respect as the listener.

2. Withhold judgment.

Active listening requires an open mind. As a listener and a leader, be open to new ideas, new perspectives, and new possibilities when practicing active listening. Even when good listeners have strong views, they suspend judgment, hold any criticisms, and avoid interruptions like arguing or selling their point right away. This can be easier if you maintain an open body posture. For example, having your arms resting on the side, rather than crossed across the chest, can signal a greater degree of openness.

3. Reflect and validate.

When you’re the listener, don’t assume that you understand correctly — or that the speaker knows you’ve heard them. Mirror their emotions by periodically paraphrasing key points. Reflecting is an active listening technique that indicates that you and your counterpart are on the same page.

For example, the speaker might tell you, “Emma is so loyal and supportive of her people — they’d walk through fire for her. But no matter how much I push, her team keeps missing deadlines.”

To paraphrase, you could say, “So Emma’s people skills are great, but accountability is a problem.”

If you hear, “I don’t know what else to do!” or “I’m tired of bailing the team out at the last minute,” try helping the other person label their feelings: “Sounds like you’re feeling pretty frustrated and stuck.” This can be a way to make them feel validated.

4. Clarify.

Ask questions about any issue that’s ambiguous or unclear. As the listener, if you have doubt or confusion about what the other person has said, say something like, “Let me see if I’m understanding. Are you talking about …?” or “Wait a minute. I didn’t follow you.” Asking for clarification shows you are paying attention.

Open-ended, clarifying, and probing questions are important active listening tools that encourage the speaker to do the work of self-reflection and problem solving, rather than justifying or defending a position, or trying to guess the “right answer.”

Examples include: “What do you think about …?” or “Tell me about …?” and “Will you further explain/describe …?”

When engaging in active listening, the emphasis is on asking, rather than telling. It assumes the other person has valuable input, and maintains a spirit of collaboration.

You might say: “What are some of the specific things you’ve tried?” or “Have you asked the team what their main concerns are?” or “Does Emma agree that there are performance problems?” and “What’s going on? Is there any other information that might be helpful to find out?”

5. Summarize.

Restating key themes as the conversation proceeds confirms and solidifies your grasp of the other person’s point of view. It also helps both parties to be clear on mutual responsibilities and follow-up. Briefly summarize what you’ve understood while practicing active listening, and ask the other person to do the same.

Giving a brief restatement of core themes raised by the speaker might sound like: “Let me summarize to check my understanding. Emma was promoted to manager, and her team loves her. But you don’t believe she holds them accountable, so mistakes are accepted and keep happening. You’ve tried everything you can think of, and there’s no apparent impact. Did I get that right?”

Restating key themes helps with understanding and accountability.

6. Share.

Active listening is first about understanding the other person, then about being understood as the listener. As you gain a clearer understanding of the other person’s perspective, you can begin to introduce your own ideas, feelings, and suggestions. People are more receptive to new ideas and suggestions when they feel understood.

Once the situation has been talked through, both you and the other person have a good picture of where things stand. From this point, the conversation can shift into problem-solving: What assumptions are we making? What hasn’t been tried? What don’t we know? What new approaches could be taken?

As the listener-coach, continue to query, guide, and offer, but don’t dictate a solution. Your “coachee” will feel more confident and eager if they think through the options and own the solution.

Used in combination, these 6 active listening techniques are the keys in holding a coaching conversation.

Active Listening Is Important, But It’s Not Everything

Leaders, Remember That Actions Speak Louder Than Words

If you’re a leader of others, know that as important as active listening is, just listening alone is not enough to ensure that others to feel listened to.

As our research has found, when employees speak up with suggestions or concerns, they still won’t feel heard if their leaders don’t then take action on what they learned. When leaders do act on what they heard, employees are more likely to raise suggestions or share ideas in the future. In fact, the perception of feeling listened to is 2x greater among those who shared with their leader who then took an action, than among those who shared with a leader who then did nothing.

So leaders, remember that the last and the most important step of active listening is taking action on what you hear, and that is an essential building block of truly compassionate leadership.

The Benefits of Active Listening

Next, it’s important to take a step back and understand why active listening matters.

• It conveys the message that what others have to say is valuable. This is a way to make employees feel reassured and included, and can signal qualities such as being open-minded and valuing knowledge and expertise.
• It facilitates understanding between individuals or teams. Wanting to be understood is a fundamental goal in relationships and is a key determinant of relationship quality. Listening to others also sends positive signals about interest, respect, and support.
• It builds psychological safety. Being a thoughtful listener, asking questions, seeking clarification, and encouraging others to share their perspective will reinforce your role as a spouse, friend, colleague, coach, and mentor. It can also help build a sense of belonging at work.
• It enables you to coach others more effectively.  Being a strong, attentive listener will lead your co-workers and direct reports to share more information with you, such that you’ll likely have a greater grasp of relevant issues and will be able to take appropriate action. You’ll also see improvements in your relationships as a result.
• It provides an example of a listening-oriented climate. By consistently demonstrating how to actively listen, and the importance of listening, you help establish a shared expectation of how others should hear one another.

Once you begin to put the active listening skillset into practice, you’ll notice the positive impact it has in a number of areas, including in leader effectiveness, in personal and professional relationships, and in various social situations.

Now that you understand what the 6 active listening techniques are, seriously consider whether you are a truly active listener. You may want to try growing your active listening skillset by taking our 7-day active listening challenge.

Assess Your Active Listening Effectiveness

Many people take their listening skills for granted. We often assume it’s obvious that we’re practicing active listening and that others know they’re being heard. But the reality is that research shows most of us vastly overrate our listening skills.

As leaders, we get distracted by technology, overloaded with information, and often struggle with active listening. We may have difficulty hearing bad news, accepting criticism, and dealing with people’s feelings. Even with the best of intentions, you may be unconsciously sending signals that you aren’t listening at all. This increases the risk of misunderstanding, which can decrease psychological safety and leave others feeling alienated.

You may need to brush up on your active listening techniques if any of the following questions describe you. Do you sometimes:

• Have a hard time concentrating on what’s being said, especially when the person speaking is complaining, rambling, or gossiping?
• Find yourself planning what to say next, rather than thinking about what the speaker is saying?
• Dislike it when someone disagrees or questions your ideas or actions?
• Zone out when the speaker has a negative attitude?
• Give advice too soon and suggest solutions to problems before the other person has fully explained their perspective?
• Tell people not to feel the way they do?
• Talk significantly more than the other person talks?

If you answered yes to any of these questions, you’re not alone.

How to Improve Your Active Listening Skills

To boost your active listening skills, try putting these techniques into practice:

• Cultivate a foundation of wellbeing. Listening is an effortful activity. It’ll be easier to actively listen throughout the day if you’re well-rested, fully nourished, and able to be mindful of what’s unfolding in the moment.
• Limit distractions and interruptions. Silence any technology and find a quiet place so that you can give the other person your full attention.
• Adopt a listening stance. Keeping an open body position sends the message that you are open to what is being said. Face the person speaking, lean in, maintain good eye contact (although this can be culture-dependent), and be as relaxed as possible. This signals that it is a safe space to share.
• Get a sense of what the other person wants from the conversation. Sometimes someone needs counsel, but often listening satisfies other needs. For instance, you can try asking, “Would you like me to be a sounding board; do you want advice; or do you want a collaborator on problem solving?” Following up with, “And if you aren’t sure what you need, I can just listen and we’ll figure it out together” is also helpful.
• Pay attention to what’s being said, not what you want to say. It’s natural to try and anticipate when you can join the conversation. But try to contain this urge by setting a goal of being able to repeat the last sentence the other person says. This keeps your attention on each statement.
• Notice nonverbals and facial expressions. Take note of the person’s tone of voice and body language for clues as to what they are feeling (but may not be saying).
• Get comfortable with silence. A break in dialogue can give you a chance to collect your thoughts — and allow the other person to do the same. Aim to do 80% of the listening and 20% of the talking.
• Cultivate curiosity. Being curious is a naturally nonjudgmental state of mind. If you assume you will hear something new, you probably will.
• Encourage the other person to offer ideas and solutions before you give yours. Often, people have already thought through potential courses of action.
• Restate key points and ask whether you have full understanding. “Let me see whether you think I understand …” is an easy way to clarify any confusion and shows you are open to being corrected.
• Consider revisiting the topic. You can listen without comment and not agree with complaints. If it’s something you want to pursue, ask the person to write it down along with a possible solution, then schedule another time to discuss.

Active Listening Solutions for Leaders

It’s critical to hone leaders’ active listening skills and build new capabilities that strengthen conversations across the entire organization. Partner with us to ensure that everyone at your organization is able to hold better conversations every day with our suite of conversational skills training.

Ready to Take the Next Step?

Become a better listener and communicator, both at work and at home, by practicing your active listening skills. Take our Active Listening Challenge to discover 7 specific active listening techniques to try in your conversations next week. 

Frequently Asked Questions About Active Listening for Leaders

The post What Is Active Listening? appeared first on CCL.

Feedback is sort of a necessary evil. No one particularly likes to listen to what they’re doing wrong, and often the words are difficult or confusing to hear. And giving feedback isn’t especially easy, either. But as a leader or coach, it’s your job to give feedback, as constructive suggestions can help your direct reports and colleagues succeed. So make sure you understand what it takes to coach your people.

Whatever your style or your company’s system, chances are that performance reviews are less-than-satisfying events for you and your direct reports. But learning how to give effective feedback  avoiding common feedback mistakes can make the difference between a meaningless (or disastrous) review and a constructive coaching conversation.

Feedback is one of the most important elements of successful performance reviews because it engages the employee in the conversation and puts the spotlight on key issues. In fact, we believe giving effective feedback is the key to improving your talent development.

If you understand the 4 types of feedback, and which one is most effective to start with, giving feedback will feel easier, and your reviews will improve.

The 4 Types of Feedback

Which Seems Most Effective to You?

Virtually all feedback can be classified as one of these 4 types:

• Directive
• Contingency
• Attribution
• Impact

1. Directive feedback tells someone what to do, even if you’re phrasing it “nicely.” For example, “I suggest that you make priorities clearer to your team.”
2. Contingency feedback gives a future consequence: “If you keep interrupting people in meetings, they’ll stop cooperating with you.”
3. Attribution feedback describes someone or their actions in terms of a quality or label, as in “You’re a good communicator” or “You’re undisciplined.”
4. Impact feedback, on the other hand, informs the receiver about the effect their actions have had on other people or on the organization. Impact feedback is important in performance reviews because it can shed light on something your direct report never knew or thought about. It gets at why their behaviors are either working or not working. An example of impact feedback is: “Team members were confused, and I felt frustrated.”

You’ll be more effective if you’re skilled at using all 4 types of feedback for the right times and for the right reasons. You’ll be even better with lots of practice.

Why Impact Feedback Is the Most Effective Type of Feedback

It’s important to remember that you can’t control how someone feels about or reacts to feedback. Different people will perceive the same situation in different ways. You can’t “make” someone like or agree with what you’re saying, but you can increase the chances that your feedback will be well received and not rejected.

The recipient of feedback is more likely to take feedback well if it isn’t authoritative. If the feedback giver is perceived as leveraging positional power or as commanding, dominating, arrogant, or self-centered, the message will be lost. The recipient of the feedback is likely to be defensive or argumentative — or passively accept what you say, but resent the feedback and act in counterproductive ways later.

Impact feedback is the most effective type of feedback to start with because it informs a person about the results of their behavior without dissecting the details, assuming motivation, or placing blame. Try using our widely recognized Situation-Behavior-Impact model to give feedback and explore intentions, making the feedback a two-way discussion.

Impact feedback isn’t authoritative — you aren’t telling a person what to do, setting forth consequences, or judging. Instead, impact feedback informs the receiver, empowers them, and increases the chance they’ll decide to accept the message.

Impact feedback is a great way to start a conversation and set the stage for more authoritative feedback if it’s needed. Once the feedback receiver realizes the impact of their behavior, they’re more receptive to prescriptive aspects of authoritative forms of feedback.

Giving feedback to others about their performance is a key developmental experience. Learn how to make the feedback you give even more effective so that others are more likely to hear and benefit from your message.

Common Feedback Mistakes

Avoid These 10 Mistakes When Giving Feedback

When giving different types of feedback to others, avoid these 10 common blunders, taken from our guidebook, Feedback That Works. And if you’ve made these feedback mistakes before, don’t beat yourself up. Just avoid them in the future.

1. The feedback judges individuals, not actions.

Putting feedback in judgmental terms puts people on the defensive. And you’ve sent the message that you know what’s right or wrong.

2. The feedback is too vague.

Steer clear of generalized, clichéd catchphrases. If you want to really encourage someone to repeat productive behavior, tell them what they did so they can keep doing it.

3. The feedback speaks for others.

Stick with the information that you know. Dragging a third party’s name into the mix only confuses the recipient, who then wonders why others are talking about them behind their back.

4. Negative feedback gets sandwiched between positive messages.

It may seem like a good idea to unburden the blow of negative comments with positive ones, but the recipient is smart enough to read between the lines, too.

5. The feedback is exaggerated with generalities.

Avoid “always” and “never.” It puts people on the defensive because there’s usually that one time…

6. The feedback psychoanalyzes the motives behind behavior.

It could be a divorce, resentment over a co-worker’s advancement, or burnout, but whatever you think you know about someone’s intents and motives is probably wrong.

7. The feedback goes on too long.

Know when to stop. People need time to process the information they’ve received.

8. The feedback contains an implied threat.

Telling someone their job is in jeopardy doesn’t reinforce good behavior or illustrate bad behavior. It only creates animosity.

9. The feedback uses inappropriate humor.

You might use sarcasm as a substitute for feedback, especially if you’re uncomfortable giving it in the first place. Keep the snide comments to yourself.

10. The feedback is a question, not a statement.

Phrasing feedback as a question is too indirect to be effective. And it may even be interpreted as sarcastic: Really?

How to Customize Feedback to Avoid Resistance

Tips for Giving Feedback for Leaders

Lastly, it’s natural that people will react differently to information about their behavior and performance. Although you can’t force someone to agree with the feedback you give, it may help to consider changing the way you deliver the message. Giving feedback with these things in mind can reduce resistance:

1. Consider the specific situation.

Giving feedback to a new employee who’s anxious about her first presentation is different from giving feedback to a confident, long-term employee who’s eager for more visibility.

2. Remember that people process information differently.

Some people understand your message quickly, while others need time to absorb it. Some will want to focus on decisions, actions, and implications. Others will want to ponder and work out possible solutions on their own. Consider the different ways to influence people and choose the most effective tactic for your situation.

3. Factor in your coachee’s health, personal, and family problems.

Resistance to feedback or unexpected reactions may be connected to stresses and problems outside work. When you’re aware of extenuating circumstances, you may decide to adjust the timing and content of your feedback. But don’t assume you know what’s going on; be prepared to handle the unexpected.

4. Individualize your delivery — keep in mind your coachee’s strengths and weaknesses.

For example, you may think a shoddy production report indicates disinterest or laziness. The coachee may agree the report was shoddy, but they may be embarrassed to admit they don’t understand the new method of calculation. So give feedback about the report, but allow the other person to offer their own reasons and possible solutions. Be sure you actively listen to understand their response.

And remember, there’s no need to psychoanalyze or judge the person. Just have a conversation, and avoid common mistakes that leaders often make when giving different types of feedback.

How to Give Negative Feedback

Best Practices for Feedback to Help Employees Improve

Most of us like to give and receive positive feedback — it feels good, and it can be helpful to know what’s working. But negative feedback is just as important to help people improve what isn’t working. And, if done well, both kinds of feedback are motivating.

In fact, the employees we surveyed reported that they’d actually prefer to get less positive feedback (65% as compared to the 77% they were getting) and more negative feedback (35% as compared to the 23% they were getting).

With careful thought and planning, negative feedback can be a valuable tool. In addition to the tips listed above, consider these best practices when offering negative feedback.

1. Aim to give feedback that’s 75% positive and 25% negative overall. But when giving negative feedback, get straight to the point. Don’t “sandwich” the feedback — that is, don’t give positive feedback first, followed by the negative feedback, and end with additional positive feedback. When you sandwich the feedback, employees will learn to ignore the first (positive) part because they know the bad news is coming next. And they won’t hear the last (positive) part because they will be focusing on the bad news.
2. Give negative feedback as soon as possible after a key event, so the employee can accurately recall the event and avoid repeating the same behavior.
3. Show empathy when delivering negative feedback, and remember feedback is about correcting specific actions — it’s not about fixing employees. They may get defensive if they think they’re “being fixed” and react negatively.
4. Think about what you’ll say before you say it. Like any skill, giving effective feedback requires practice — so plan time to rehearse the conversation if you need to.
5. Create a favorable feedback environment. Within your team, and even your organization, building a culture that values active listening and psychological safety can pay off when employees are comfortable receiving, seeking out, and using feedback to improve their performance.

While giving feedback — positive or negative — can feel uncomfortable, with the right technique and plenty of practice, it can go more smoothly.

Ready to Take the Next Step?

Equip your leaders to give their teams the feedback that helps them succeed. Partner with us to create a customized learning journey for your leaders using our research-based modules, including Feedback That Works, Psychological Safety, Talent Conversations, and Listening to Understand.

The post How to Give the Most Effective Feedback appeared first on CCL.

Leaders must be able to think with clarity, express ideas, and share information with a multitude of audiences. They must also handle the rapid flows of information within the organization and among customers, partners, vendors, and other stakeholders and influencers.

Why Is Communication Important in Leadership?

Communication is more complicated than the simple mechanics of sending and receiving information — when leaders harness the ability to communicate well, they translate important data quickly and accurately.

Communication is one of the most important skills a leader can have. It takes purpose and intention to implement effective communication. You must know how and when to communicate, and select the appropriate mode for your audience. Whether writing, conversing, presenting, or facilitating, leaders must excel at communication in all of these modes. It’s the only way to meet people’s individual needs and enable important human connections.

3 Important Facts About Communication for Leaders

1. Authenticity counts — a lot.

Be honest and sincere. Find your own voice; avoid using corporate-speak or sounding like someone you’re not. Let who you are, where you come from, and what you value come through in your communication. People want, respect, and will follow authentic leadership. Forget about eloquence — worry about being real. Don’t disguise who you are. People will never willingly follow someone they feel is inauthentic.

2. Visibility is a form of communication.

If you want to communicate well, be accessible. Emails and official missives aren’t enough. Be present, visible, and available. Getting “out there” — consistently and predictably — lets others know what kind of leader you are. People need to see and feel who you are to feel connected to the work you want them to do. Find ways to interact with all of your stakeholder groups, even (and especially!) if communicating in a crisis.

3. Listening is a powerful skill.

Good communicators are also good listeners. When you listen well, you gain a clear understanding of another’s perspective and knowledge. Listening fosters trust, respect, openness, and alignment. Active listening is a key part of coaching others. Allow people to air their concerns. Ask powerful questions that open the door to what people really think and feel. Pay close, respectful attention to what is said — and what’s left unsaid.

Learn how to communicate better, connect more deeply, build trust, and be more satisfied — inside and outside of work — with our book, Better Conversations Every Day.

15 Critical Tips for Leaders to Communicate More Effectively

Our Top Communication Tips for Leaders

1. Communicate relentlessly.

Communicate information, thoughts, and ideas clearly — and frequently — in different media. Keep processes open and transparent, and find ways to help smooth the path of communication for your team, employees, or organization. Shed all traces of detachment and arrogance, and take the time to talk to your people.

2. Set clear expectations.

In every relationship, our behavior is guided by a set of rules or social norms — and in a professional setting, these norms tend to go unspoken. Be intentional about establishing clear expectations and team norms at your organization, whether you’re sending an email to your entire team, leading a group discussion, or having a one-on-one conversation with a direct report.

3. Simplify and be direct.

Say what you mean. Be direct. Don’t hide behind complexity or pile on a ton of information. Direct communication can be the most important type of communication. This is even more important when communicating in a virtual setting.

4. Illustrate through stories.

When you tell a good story, you give life to a vision, goal, or objective. Telling good stories creates trust, captures hearts and minds, and serves as a reminder of the vision. Plus, people find it easier to repeat a story or refer to an image or quote than to talk about a mission statement, strategy document, or project plan. This is key when communicating the vision. Your ability to create and communicate a compelling, authentic, and bold story will also help you bolster your leadership brand.

5. Be prepared.

Poor communication in the past might mean your audience resists what you have to say today. Do your homework. Start familiarizing yourself with the context around an issue, and any alternative viewpoints and perspectives about it, before you initiate communication. If you’re met with resistance or presented with a different position, you’ll feel more prepared to address and overcome objections and communicate more effectively.

6. Know your audience.

Different stakeholders may have different concerns. The tactics you use to influence one group might not be the best approach for the next. Tailor your influencing strategy for the particular person and consider their personality, goals, and objectives, as well as their roles and responsibilities. For example, someone who is highly rational may be more easily swayed by a logical appeal than an emotional one.

7. Reinforce intent with body language.

Showing positive body language like eye contact, nodding, and other relaxed gestures can inspire team members and make them feel more comfortable communicating with you. A simple head nod or smile can go a long way to show you’re paying attention and that you care, and little gestures like this can add up, slowly helping you to build rapport and collaboration and transform your organizational culture, too.

8. Read the room.

Watch your audience closely for nonverbal signs of engagement or disengagement, confusion or understanding, etc. and adjust your message and style accordingly. You can do this literally during in-person meetings, and you can even “read the room” in virtual settings by looking closely at others’ faces on the screen and by soliciting feedback.

If people are understanding your communication and aligned with your message, you may get lots of eye contact, see nodding heads, observe audience members leaning forward or demonstrating other body language that suggests alignment with your message. If you see listeners leaning back, with arms crossed, and bored or confused expressions on their faces, then you may need to adjust your message or delivery style.

It’s helpful to pause occasionally to let people ask questions and check for understanding, giving your listeners a chance to respond or seek clarification, etc. Stay flexible so you can continually notice how your communications are landing with your audience, and adjust based on the signals they send.

9. Ask good questions.

If good leaders listen more than they speak, the right conversation prompts are crucial. The best leadership questions get right to the heart of things, cut through complicated situations, and identify levers that will really make a difference. Asking non-directive inquiries can also unlock insights — which is why asking powerful questions is key to coaching your people.

10. Listen and encourage input.

Seek out, and then listen to, individuals from all levels of the organization — from the key stakeholders who have a lot of opinions you need to consider, to the new employees who may be reluctant to voice concerns. Let team members know they are valuable, show empathy toward them, and create psychological safety so people feel comfortable speaking up. It will show those you lead that you care about both them and the organization.

Also, be okay with silence. Encourage the other person to offer ideas and solutions before you give yours. Do 80% of the listening and 20% of the talking. Demonstrate an interest in, and respect for, your colleagues — this builds trust and makes the emotional connection that’s so important for effective leadership.

11. Take feedback seriously.

Asking for honest feedback from your team or employees can foster a positive stream of communication, and it helps build trust overall. This tactic can also make your team feel more respected, giving them a chance to have their voices heard. If you take their feedback seriously, you will grow as a leader and enhance your skillset. However, if you ask for and then don’t incorporate their feedback, the opposite is true — it could lead to a loss of trust and alignment. Following through with action steps will reinforce the message and show that you truly heard and understood the other person’s concerns.

12. Affirm with actions.

While effective leaders master the art and craft of language, speak clearly, and present logical and compelling arguments, skilled leaders also know that communication goes beyond words. If people hear one things from you but see another, your credibility is shot. People need to trust you. Your behavior and actions communicate a world of information — so focus on alignment and be clear on the messages you send even when you aren’t saying anything.

13. Initiate the tough, but needed, conversations.

Difficult conversations, whether with a client or direct report, are an inevitable part of any workplace. It’s tempting to ignore conflicts, but effective leaders must be able to address concerns as they arise. Be sure to approach any difficult conversation from a neutral perspective and explore both sides before coming to a conclusion. Work to problem-solve by inventing options that meet each side’s important concerns, and do your best to resolve conflicts through open communication.

14. Involve others before developing a plan of action.

The work doesn’t stop when the communication ends. Take whatever you’ve learned in the exchange, synthesize it, and present your plan to the appropriate stakeholders. Generating buy-in and making sure that everyone is on the same page before executing on strategy will be key to achieving organizational goals.

15. Remember your reputation.

Never compromise your reputation for the sake of communication. At times, you may walk a fine line between being too aggressive and being too relaxed, and as a leader, you need to make sure you don’t get a reputation for leaning too heavily in one direction.

To navigate these challenges and bolster your leadership image, consider asking yourself thought-provoking questions like, “When do I stay out of an issue, and when do I get involved?” or “How do I respond when errors are identified?” Make a list of communication concerns you have, and ask a colleague to describe the behaviors they would consider too aggressive or too relaxed — their responses will help gauge how to move forward.

What Poor Leadership Communication Costs Your Organization

Workplace communication is a moving target. Leaders must continue to find new ways to make their communications more effective, purposeful, and trustworthy. But, what if communication becomes stagnant, unorganized, and messy?

Leaders may unintentionally derail their own efforts to enhance communication. They may not communicate enough because of a fear of oversharing, they may think out loud at the wrong moment, or they may have been too honest with a colleague.

These challenges typically arise in high-stress situations, when expectations or deadlines aren’t met, when an opportunity is lost, or when innovation is lacking. It can be frustrating, but it’s worth putting in the extra effort to tackle these conflicts head-on with candid conversations and productive debate, because when a conflict is mismanaged, costs will continue to mount — whether they result in tangible out-of-pocket costs like turnover, or intangible costs like poor morale, decision-making, or broken trust.

Learn more about the true cost of poor leadership communication and the costs of “conflict incompetence.”

How Effective Leadership Communication Builds Trust

A Quick Self-Assessment for Leaders to Evaluate Your Communication

A strong foundation of trust is one of the quickest ways leaders can establish good communication. Here are some actions that you can take while communicating to build trust. As you’re reading them, rate yourself on a scale of 1 to 5 — with a 1 signifying it’s an area that you need to work on, and 5 meaning that you have excelled:

• Ensure that your words and actions are consistent and avoid mixed messages.
• Act in ways that support the values of your organization.
• When having difficulty with another coworker or team member, go directly to that individual to discuss the situation.
• Be a sounding board on sensitive issues for others.
• Share your own opinions and perspectives, even when they’re different from the majority view.
• Avoid being a “yes” person.
• Keep your focus on the big picture and the shared goals of the organization.
• Accept accountability for your own actions and the results of those actions.
• Promote respectful dialogue and productive debate, and work to resolve conflicts productively.

Now that you’ve assessed your skills, how high is your score? How well did you do? If you identified any areas that need improvement, begin today by marking the one that you will start with immediately to start building trust and improving your communication as a leader.

Ready to Take the Next Step?

Effective communication for leaders is essential. Partner with us to craft a customized learning journey for your team using our research-backed modules. Available leadership topics include Authenticity, Communication & Leadership, Feedback That Works, Emotional Intelligence, Influence, Listening to Understand, Psychological Safety, and more.

Or, build coaching skills across your team and scale a culture of open communication and feedback across your entire organization.

The post 15 Tips for Effective Communication in Leadership appeared first on CCL.

And if you aren’t currently measured on your “ability to develop and coach others” — that’s likely to change soon.

Coaching provided by outside experts continues to be important and valuable, but increasingly, organizations are looking at skill-building for coaching people as a vital tool for developing talent and meeting performance goals. And managers play the key role.

The problem is that leaders are being held accountable for developing others, but few are taught best practices for coaching others. So they end up giving reviews and giving advice, but they don’t really understand how to have a coaching conversation with their people.

That’s why we’ve been partnering with client organizations to help them develop leader-coaches who understand how to be an effective coach, outlining specific actions for coaching people well.

How to Coach People Using LACE

4 Core Skills for Coaching Others Effectively

At CCL, our coaching methodology is based on research and our over 50 years of experience coaching others in organizations around the world. We believe that whether you’re a professional leadership coach, or a leader with coaching responsibilities, you need to build both your skill at coaching others and the relationship itself.

Unlike some coaching models that can be convoluted and theoretical, the 4 core skills we teach for coaching people effectively ensure that in the moment, you’re not trying to remember a concept or a theory, but have pragmatic guidance to follow. Just remember LACE, our acronym for the 4 core skills for holding conversations that coach others:

• Listen to Understand
• Ask Powerful Questions
• Challenge and Support
• Establish Next Steps and Accountability

1. Listen to Understand.

Listening starts with paying close attention, repeating back concepts to build understanding, and summarizing what you hear. But listening to understand goes beyond these active listening techniques for coaching others.

Listening to truly understand someone starts with recognizing that multiple levels of information are conveyed in a conversation: facts, emotions, and values. Naturally, when listening, you pay attention to the facts being discussed. But listening to understand also means paying attention to other levels. Listen too for the values behind the matter at hand, as well as the emotions that people feel. Notice not only their words, but also the tone of voice, body language, beliefs, and what seems to be most important for the other person. Coaching others well requires that you listen for all 3 levels, and you will really be listening to understand the other person’s perspective.

2. Ask Powerful Questions.

This is really the ability to ask courageous questions, moving the conversation forward, and provoking new insights, rather than just providing them for the other person. Making non-directive inquiries that draw out more information and stretch the other person’s thinking is a learned skill that must be practiced. Examples of powerful questions include:

• What else could you do?
• Who else have you talked to about this?
• Who else is affected in this situation?
• How do you want the rest of the team to feel about this?

Beyond creating mutual understanding about facts, asking powerful questions like these when coaching others can help uncover insights and unspoken reservations that wouldn’t have come to light otherwise.

3. Challenge and Support.

We all need our thinking challenged at times. Challenge can stress-test ideas, yield productive dialogue, and uncover unexamined assumptions. It can lead to stronger, shared understanding.

Ultimately, coaching people is about getting them to try something different from what they have done before, or creating a significant shift in perspective. It’s about uncovering answers through inquiry, openness, and exploration, and there usually aren’t quick fixes.

But challenging someone is only effective when combined with the right amount of support. You must show that you’ve truly listened to the other person and understand their feelings and values. A challenge should be offered within an environment of safety. Taken too far — or offered at the wrong moment and without sufficient support — challenge can cause damage.

When done well, challenge builds trust and encourages honesty and transparency, rather than triggering defensiveness.

4. Establish Next Steps and Accountability.

Having an effective conversation is only one aspect of successful coaching. The real work happens later when insights are applied and new behaviors are tried. The skill of creating accountability lies in creating clear, specific, and meaningful actions.

Connect conversations to action by establishing next steps (“So, I’ll send you an email by Friday, letting you know how it went”). This ensures that the value, insights, and decisions created by a coaching conversation aren’t lost.

The goal of a conversation is always that those involved walk away with a shared understanding of what they discussed, and conversations like these increase the chance of successful follow-through that creates growth and fosters courageous actions that lead to meaningful change.

To Coach People, Focus on the Relationship

Leader-coaches can aim for transformation, even in 10-minute hallway conversations.

But creating the right relationship is critical. This ensures you have a safe, trusting, and productive space for conversations where you coach others.

At CCL, we believe effective leaders “bring their whole selves to leadership.” To be a leader-coach, focus on boosting your self-awareness, showing vulnerability and empathy, and creating an environment of psychological safety. In addition, set a foundation of high ethical standards and ground rules of agreement.

Once you have the tools and some practice with the 4 core conversation skills under your belt, you’ll find that coaching people through conversations are an effective way to develop and motivate your direct reports. And you will benefit, too; as you improve your skill at coaching others, you’re developing leadership capabilities that have benefits in other work relationships as well. A manager’s ability to build relationships, elicit information, challenge assumptions, support others, and clarify goals goes a long way in helping you to succeed as a leader.

Learn how to communicate better, connect more deeply, build trust, and be more satisfied — inside and outside of work — with our book, Better Conversations Every Day.

Create a Culture of Coaching Others By Scaling Conversational Skills

Coaching people can have both an individual and organizational impact. Helping individual leaders build the conversational skills they need to coach others effectively is the first step toward implementing a coaching culture across your entire company.

Our philosophy is that everyone in an organization benefits when people are using coaching skills every day. Enabling the 4 core skills of LACE creates better conversations that create a common language, a better foundation, and a stronger platform on which to build other enterprise-wide initiatives.

Once these 4 core skills for coaching others permeate everyday conversations, they enable leaders to build stronger relationships and enhance a culture of psychological safety, increase engagement, and foster development.

Organizations that want to truly scale a coaching culture will also want to:

• Offer everyone access to developing skills at coaching others, no matter where they sit in the org chart.
• “Seed” the organization with role models who coach people well.
• Link coaching outcomes to business goals.
• Coach senior leadership teams.
• Recognize and reward coaching behaviors.
• Integrate coaching others with other people-management processes.

Ready to Take the Next Step?

Participants in our coach training for leaders learn how best to coach people. Or, your organization can partner with us for conversational skills training and help scale a culture of coaching others across your entire organization.

The post How to Coach People appeared first on CCL.

• PODCAST

Lead With That: What the Evolution of the Job Market Can Teach Us About the Importance of Constructive Conversations

In this episode of Lead With That, Ren and Allison explore the looming tension that is currently surrounding the job market and how workers are trying to find their footing amidst an ever-changing workplace landscape. From “Quiet Quitting” to “The Great Resignation” to now navigating an unpredictable market filled with layoffs and downsizing, workers are struggling more than ever to find a place in their careers, and within organizations where they feel fulfilled. Employers are also struggling with finding the balance between nurturing a sense of security amongst employees while also being focused on the bottom line. With the recent highly publicized layoffs by large companies like Spotify and the media attention that has been given to the desire, or lack thereof, that people have to work, there seems to be a constant flow of conflicting messages – but ultimately the only way to stay grounded and feel fulfilled is to hold candid, constructive conversations with one another.

While businesses will always have to place focus on profit, the conversation highlights from a leadership perspective, the importance that leaders should place on understanding the needs of employees, while also ensuring they  are willing to have the tough conversations with their teams when needed. 

Listen to the Podcast

In this episode, Ren and Allison discuss the current tension surrounding the job market and the changes that have affected both workers and their employers. While both parties are working to find a balance that works for all, it seems the only true solution is to focus on candid conversations. Ren and Allison explore what we can learn from such conversations from a leadership perspective, and lead with that.

Learn More

Interview Transcript

INTRO: 

Welcome back to CCLs podcast, Lead With That, where we talk current events in pop culture to look at where leadership is happening and what’s happening with leadership.

Ren:

Welcome back to CCL’s podcast, Lead With That, where we talk current events in pop culture to look where leadership is happening and what’s happening with leadership.

Picture this: you’re in a company where layoffs are looming, the air is tense, uncertainty hangs like a cloud, and morale takes a nosedive. It’s not just a numbers game, it’s the holidays, it’s about livelihoods, career trajectories, families, and the emotional rollercoaster for everyone involved. But let’s not forget the flip side; retention and attrition. Keeping talent engaged and motivated in 2023. How the hell do we do that? I mean, that’s the holy grail for any business. And when people start leaving for whatever reason, it’s a wake-up call.

But what if they don’t leave? As recent conversations in corporate America are to believe the new headache for bosses is employees aren’t quitting. No worries though if you work at Spotify, they fixed that problem for you. Yet again, Spotify has released more workers from their workforce this time, laying off 17% or cuts that affect roughly 1500 people. It seems like employees can’t win. First we told you that people were moving jobs too frequently, then people were just quietly quitting, then people were quietly leaving. Now, we’re being told people aren’t leaving their jobs enough or people are just being loudly fired.

Today we explore all of those things that a bit more and maybe hopefully give you something to take with you during these trying times. Welcome back everyone. I’m Ren Washington, and as usual I’m joined with Allison Barr. Allison, when’s the last time you were fired?

Allison:

Oh. Well, I would call this a mutual parting, which was … I think I was 23 or around there. And I was living in a ski town, and I was working 2 or 3 jobs, as a lot of people do in ski towns to be able to afford it. I was working at a wine shop, and was not very engaged. I’ll never forget my boss had a conversation with me, which almost was like a, “Coaching out” of a conversation, but it was the right thing, and I was looking for other work at the time so it wasn’t a firing like a layoff, but it was a mutual parting. What about you?

Ren:

Probably mine was just a straight-up firing, but probably in my early 20s too, at a restaurant. I had made my way through the restaurant industry being a bouncer and moving all the way to a server in this steakhouse. We did service teams, so it was a front and a back server. I remember someone telling me once, “Ren, you’re going to be a great back server.” As a young man with a chip on my shoulder, I was like, “Who the hell do you think I am? I’m going to be the best front server there is.” And so, that was the beginning of the end for me. I probably ruffled some feathers, tried too hard, didn’t do enough listening. And at one point I had talked like, “I’m never going back to being a busboy.” We didn’t call them busboy, but that’s what they were.

And so I got to a point where they’re like, “Ren, we’re going to wheel you back to bus. I think we may have jumped tried too far.” And so I was like, “Let’s just be real, man. You’re getting rid of me.” And they’re like, “Yeah.”

Allison:

Did you say that?

Ren:

Yeah. I said, and it’s something that I think about today, because I wonder if he was trying to cover for, to not pay the employee insurance or whatever, or, I can’t even think of that word. I’m embarrassing myself. Unemployment. Right?

Allison:

Unemployment.

Ren:

And so that was probably my experience. But I wonder, I think I have an idea. You said something like coaching out, and I think I might have an idea of what that looks like or feels like, but what does coaching out of the role mean? Or tell me?

Allison:

Well, this was a long time ago, so let me try to remember. We sat down, and I remember walking in and felt, I could sense something was up. I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced that; you walk into work or in your personal life and you can tell something’s up?

Ren:

Oh yeah.

Allison:

So, I knew something was up and I clocked in and put my things in the back and my boss said, “Can we chat?” And I said, “Sure.” Which sort of solidified something up being up. And she sat me down and she said something along the lines of like, “Are you happy here? I’m sensing that maybe you’re not.” And I actually to this day don’t know how she knew that. I was 23, maybe I was obvious, but I didn’t think that I was coming to work, I didn’t do anything specific necessarily. But full transparency, I didn’t like that job. I didn’t like it.

And I don’t remember what I said. And I was not a savvy 23-year-old. I think I might have asked her, “Why do you ask?” Or something like that. And again, I don’t remember what she said, but we had a conversation about my goals, what my goals in my career were. And if wine was in my future, which it was a not, I just needed a job, was what happened. And that was not. And the environment was, I remember some of the people I worked with wanted to be sommeliers, and they were very passionate about wine. I was not, I was just clocking in, and selling the wine, and leaving, and I did not want to grow. I didn’t want to, I wanted a paycheck. So she asked me about my career goals and we were not aligned. And she’s like, “Do you think perhaps you’d be happier somewhere else?” And I said, “Yes.” And she said, “I’ll give you a good reference and thanks so much for your time here.” I said, “Great, thanks.”

Ren:

Well, that’s such an interesting frame and I’ve heard, and I’ve met people in my life too, who are able to recognize that certain assets or resources on their team need to be transitioned. And with the right kind of coaching, they can walk themselves out. You can realize that in that spirit of partnership that maybe this thing isn’t happening. And yes, that dreadful, “Hey, we need to talk” is definitely that thing you got to look out for. So I think all of us can empathize with that. I wonder if I was in your seat and she said, “Is wine in your future?” I’d be like, “Look, every night.” But yeah, so it’s interesting and we talk a lot about, I think, value proposition and working with employees. And so listeners, some of the things that we’ll discuss today might swirl around some of those topics.

But I think for our purposes, Allison, I’d love to focus maybe on 2 areas in this conversation of attrition, and retention, and layoffs, and keeping people, and one of them was that Wall Street Journal article that said, “The new headache for bosses, people aren’t quitting enough.” And then almost right away then the Spotify announcement comes out and we can even read the CEO layoff memo. And so I’d love to just explore those ideas. We hear in a moment people aren’t quitting, and then the next moment we say, “Well, CEOs are going to solve that problem for us.” And so, starting first with that, people aren’t quitting enough. And I know we were both kind of frustrated with this, “What do you mean?” And so I’d love to hear your read, especially the community watches to say corporate American workers who responded to that idea. What’s your read on that article in the whole bit?

Allison:

Well, the first time that I saw that, and you and I messaged back and forth about it, there were 2 things that were top of mind to me. One was, employees cannot win. They’re quiet quitting, they’re not quitting, they are quitting, the Great Resignation, they can’t win, right? So what would you like employees to do? And the second part of that was something we probably don’t need to get into too heavily, but this notion of media literacy and how trends will spread quickly. Understanding that just because an article has a headline, and has some information that they might be seeing from companies does not mean that it’s happening at your company. And it’s something that I see and maybe you do too, Ren a lot with the people that we work with, our clients, conversations I even have with friends, even neighbors sometimes, “Oh, I hear that people are lazy, they’re not wanting to do…” And where are you hearing that? Right? So it’s very important to have a certain level of media literacy and understanding objectively what is happening at your workplace, or on your team before you come to work with that frame in mind because it might not be true for you.

Ren:

Yeah, I mean, Kim Kardashian told me that people just don’t know how to work. And so, if only we had Kim’s work ethic, I feel like I’d be better off.

Allison:

Right.

Ren:

I think when we start to explore this impossible position that people are in and we’re thinking about how folks can’t win and where we need to go from a company standpoint, I’m really feeling a little lost. And I think part of my feeling lost goes to some of what you said around this literacy idea, that maybe these big trends, these meta trends that we’re hearing aren’t trends but representations of tiny pockets of conversation. And not only do we need to have literacy when we’re reading these media blurbs, but then we need to be understanding the language that’s happening in our own organization.

Allison:

That’s it.

Ren:

And I immediately, when I start to see this, I wanted to ask questions of our own leadership around, “Well, what are our retention strategies? How are we managing attrition?” Especially in a year where so many companies are back on the upswing, but there’s still that looming and pending recession. And so, if I’m a leader and I’m hearing that people aren’t quitting enough and in fact I work at an organization that tells me, “Hey, we have mandatory reduction of staff every year to keep up with industry benchmarks of people quitting.” It’s like I feel like not only can employees not win, but employers are pretty stuck between a rock and a hard place, especially a manager who’s not calling the shots, but is the one releasing people.

Allison:

Yeah, it’s complex and it’s something that you and I’ve probably talked about in previous episodes, it got me thinking about a term that we used at CCL that’s not holistically used at CCL of course, but it’s VUCA, V-U-C-A, volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous. And right now we’re certainly in a VUCA environment both at the workplace and external of that. That’s I would say been a trend for a couple of years. And that’s very real, that things are uncertain. Work environments feel uncertain. Economics can feel uncertain at times. And so, it’s inevitable that we’ll have to maybe encounter some bad news at the workplace. And as a manager, you might have to deliver some bad news. And back to what you said a few moments ago too, is that understanding at the leadership level, what your plans are for that is really important. But also balancing that with an inability to predict, at the grand scheme of things, it’s pretty hard to predict what’s going to happen for a company economically next year based off of global economics.

And one thing that I found interesting about Spotify, I’m jumping a little bit here, and we can come back to whichever topics feel most relevant, but Spotify’s memo went public, their memo on laying people off. And what I found interesting, and in some ways I really respected that he took a couple of paragraphs to explain, “Yes, we’ve had some high profits in 2021 and 2022, and here’s why we’re making this decision now.” I think that’s one thing that companies miss a lot when they have mass layoffs is that people will see this company is profiting. Why in the world are we having layoffs, and is it about greed? Is it about something else? They don’t know., And so I appreciated that he took a paragraph or 2 to explain the economics behind it. I think that goes missing a lot.

Ren:

Yeah. And then needing, like you said earlier, media literacy. I double clicked on some of those things trying to find out because I guess this quarter they turned a profit, so did Spotify. But Spotify this year has not made money, and like many service and streaming things, they have not made money their whole lifetime and they’re continuing to try to… Their revenue streams don’t always look positive, but they’ve got this huge brand, so people are like, “You just made millions of dollars this quarter, yet you’re releasing us. Someone help me understand.”

What I will say though, that I think there was something to the CEO’s commentary about giving us some perspective, but from my money, I wish I would’ve seen more kinds of ownership of decision-making. I think a lot of times, people in organizations as they would, are left to pay for the mistakes of the highest reaches of leadership. And when I think about the success of 2020 and 2021 for Spotify, there seemed to be this urgency, like, “The business is doing, good rates are down, we have a desire and a need to increase our work span.” And then in between now and then, there was some business decisions made by Spotify, one of which is doubling down on private or premier podcasts, which is to say exclusive podcasts. Podcasts you can only find on Spotify. And that was one of their plans, and devoting money into that didn’t really pay off.

And now it’s kind of like, “Hey, even I have some of the quote right here from the CEO, to align Spotify with our future goals and ensure we are right sized for the challenges ahead, I’ve made the difficult decision to reduce our total head count by 17%.” And he was talking about how because the cost structure is still too big. And there wasn’t anything, “Hey man, I made a bad decision. We made some bad business bets and now we’ve got to let you go.” Because it’s not like we’re running out of money. It’s like, “We put money in the wrong spaces. So now as he said, to be blunt, many smart, talented and hardworking people will be departing us.” And so I don’t know if I’m so much, I don’t feel as good about some of his messaging, maybe. Reactions?

Allison:

Well, yes, a few. Let me just go back in the future and remind you, if you’ll remember, do you remember BetterUp’s layoffs in 2021 where the CEO held a Zoom call and in the matter of 3 minutes, 3 minutes was the Zoom call, saying, “You’re part of the unfortunate group that’s being laid off effective immediately.” And it was pretty abrupt, lacking in any adequate compassion you might say. And so that would be an example of what not to do. And I’m curious from your perspective, what would an adequate ownership sound like from a CEO? What would’ve made you happy in the Spotify that you just mentioned? You said it didn’t feel like there was ownership.

Ren:

“It’s not just that the cost structure is still too big. We as leadership have failed to get the cross structure to a way where we can keep your jobs.”

Allison:

Got it.

Ren:

Now granted, I mean, Ren, it’s easy for you to say that to have someone sacrifice themselves on the altar of corporate America because like a CEO does that the board looks at it and they’re like, “Well, we can’t show weakness. You’re out of here.” And then all of a sudden we’re like ChatGPT, you got CEOs in 3 days. And so there’s this frantic reaction. So I understand that it’s not that easy, but I think if you’re a listener out there, especially a manager who’s in a rock and a hard place who has to let someone go, even though you didn’t have any part in it, I think what I would’ve loved leadership to do is recognize that, “You had no part in this, and this is a failure of the business, not a failure of you, it’s a failure of some decision-making.” And ownership in, “We needed to tell you earlier than through this memo, we needed to prime people for this eventual change.”

But I think it comes down to something that we always talk about, just a transparency, honesty, vulnerability. Leaders are holding cards so close to the vest and then all of a sudden it’s like, “Guess what? You’re cut. And why are you cut? Well, we couldn’t fix it, but it’s not like we, it’s just like the cost structure is still too big. We don’t know how it’s still too big, but it’s too big.” And so, I guess I’d probably want a little bit more of that leadership courage to say, “That’s on us.”

Allison:

Yeah, I think what is interesting that you and I are highlighting right now is that you can’t please everyone, because that to me personally, I don’t know that I would need that as much, as I would want to know more about financials. From what I know, granted, I might be lacking information because I might not be the CFO, I might not be on the finance team, but from where I sit, I see that we’re doing quite well. And maybe, I don’t know if this is true, but just maybe there hasn’t been that communication around financials being not great this year, for example. I would want to know why is this happening if we’re doing okay financially on paper, right?

But again, I think it’s really hard and I don’t think that CEOs can win and don’t want to downplay the impact this has on employees because those people who get laid off. A, might be losing a job they really like B, they’re losing their access and their compensation. Some of them might be losing their health insurance, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? And again, another thing that I liked that Spotify did was cover all of those bases outright. It’s towards the end of the article, I don’t know if you saw that, but they lay that out outright because that’s where my brain would go immediately is like, “Okay, I am going to have to find other work. I’m not going to have a paycheck for. How long am I getting severance? What’s health insurance going to look like?” I’m going to be thinking about how to take care of myself and my family. So that’s where my brain would go immediately and everybody’s different.

And I could also almost guarantee, I do not know this for fact, but I could almost guarantee you that they had either a PR firm help write that, or somebody in marketing or somebody who’s savvy about that kind of messaging, I would assume, write that memo.

Ren:

And I’m inclined to agree with you. I don’t know much about the Spotify CEO’s messaging capabilities, but typically, yes, some firm carries this and tries to do it. But it sounds like you were satisfied with that towards the end of The Layoff Memo as it’s being infamously called, is that there was some recognition and commentary about how Spotify will support those who are being let go. And that’s not just a cold break. And so, that’s something worth kudos.

Allison:

I don’t know. Kudos might be too big of a word.

Ren:

I’m not trying to trap you.

Allison:

I think it would ease my anxiety if I just put myself in that position. If I got a memo, the first communication about a layoff was a memo and not a conversation, again, we can get into this if we need to, but I understand why that happens too. But if I got a memo, I would have anxiety of not knowing, am I going to lose my job? Me being me, I will probably think the worst because that’s who I am. And I would start planning, “Okay, well I’m going to have to look for a new job. What if?” The what ifs would start to come. And I think that’s very natural and that was covered for me. So that would ease me a little bit. That would ease me a little bit. If I am part of this group, here are the things that will be provided for me which might buy me some time as I look for another job.

Ren:

And those what ifs, I think is what I’m trying to get at. And I’m reminded of our CCL adage, “Slow down in the power up, time spent on the front end is time saved on the back end.” And you and I we’re in this industry of learning and development and corporate America, and we are familiar with engagement surveys. And if you’ve never taken an engagement survey, it’s when your organization tells you that they care about you and then makes you do a survey every 2 years to see how much you’re being engaged. And we do ones, all of our partner organizations, most of them do them. And there’s the interesting metric in engagement surveys, which is the turnover metric.

Allison:

Isn’t it?

Ren:

Which is that there is an expected amount of turnover, in fact an encouraged amount of turnover. Healthy organizations have a certain amount of turnover. And so you would think to yourself, “Wait a minute, you’re telling me, Ren, that when organizations lose people, that’s good?” And what I’m telling you is that the industry would suggest that there is a healthy amount of turnover to make room for new talent, to make room for talent to evolve, and so on and so forth. So I wonder, would it be helpful if when I was brought into an organization and after a certain amount of time I was informed of the what if, that, “At our organization we anticipate X percent of turnover. And if we don’t get that turnover, guess what?” I guess, maybe I want to hear the what ifs-

Allison:

Do you?

Ren:

Earlier so I can be prepared to know. Well, wouldn’t you want to know that, “Hey, by the way, we turnover 10% of our workforce every year.” I don’t want to be surprised when I find out that, oh, I could be at risk that 10%, but you don’t want to hear that. Is that what I’m hearing?

Allison:

No, because well, I know that already, probably based off my job and my education. I know that. I do not need to be reminded of that. That feels, so again, we’re highlighting differences how hard it is to please everyone. Depending on the leader, that sounds like a threat to me.

Ren:

Like, depending on who’s delivering the message? 

Allison:

Yes. And how it’s delivered, like, “Just so you know, if X, Y, Z doesn’t happen by…” Maybe, but maybe not.

Ren:

It wouldn’t be individualized. It might be in the State of the Union or whatever that is. We have so many standing meetings and if layoffs are part of our DNA, rather, if an organization is expecting to honor those metrics, to have a healthy… Our favorite thing, people, I’m air quoting to do, “Healthy turnover,” I know I’ve just recently heard of massive organizations saying, “This is how we roll. We’ve got to make space for all of these new mergers, and acquisitions and new employees. It’s just policy.” And I guess I would want to know if an organization is going to make staffing decisions based off of that, then that would be really great to know upfront.

Allison:

Well, I think it also plays into that conversation that people have quite a bit that, you and I have already talked about this to some extent, a company loyalty. Why are you loyal to an employee when they’re not necessarily loyal to you? By the way, those are not my words, those are words that I hear out there in the ethers. Right? And the interwebs and such. I think it’s a good idea holistically, regardless of the position you are in at your workplace to understand objectively what a workplace is, objectively first, and then you decide how you react to it.

But to your point, Ren businesses plan for people leaving and it’s not the only thing that they rely on to keep their costs in check, but it is one of them. And so again, it’s just a good idea to know these things holistically. You also brought up engagement surveys. By the way, high engagement does not mean high productivity. It might, but that doesn’t mean that necessarily. So I caution leaders from relying too heavily on that, which is not what you said; I just want to make sure that is said. Because high engagement only means high engagement. That’s what that means. It does not mean that your financials are going to all of a sudden explode positively. It does not mean high success. It does not mean high productivity. It might, but it’s a bad idea to rely only on that to assess your organization.

Ren:

Yeah, I’d be wary of building causal connections. However, I might argue that there’s probably some strong correlations between higher engagement and higher organizational success. I don’t have the data, that would be conjecture. You’re shrugging, so maybe we’re in the same boat there maybe.

Allison:

Yeah.

Ren:

But I think something that’s important to what you’re saying is all of these are just points of data, multiple points of data, and you’ve got to collect all these bits of information to make sense. And I think as we’ve alluded, you can’t please everyone. You can’t be all things to all people. There’s never a world where 17% of the organization is gone and everyone’s going to be happy about how it happened. Unless the CEO is like, “Guess what I’m doing? I’m not taking a salary this year to make sure 1500 people can.” Now that would be fun and interesting, but I mean, what’s the realism of that when I have 4 kids who go to an Ivy League school, I could pay for it. Now I’m underwater because I’m living the American dream, which is to say, outside of my means. And so I think-

Allison:

But pause for a moment. Can I pause you for a moment?

Ren:

Okay, let’s do it. Yeah.

Allison:

So, I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m simply just asking, is that sustainable though? Let’s say the CEO doesn’t take a salary and that saves a year. Then what?

Ren:

Then we, I as a CEO, I am really committed for us to right-size the cost structure by next year.

Allison:

But what if the economic environment does not allow for that?

Ren:

Then you release your layoff memo, and you say, “Everyone, I tried. I tried. Last year I didn’t take a salary, I kept you off for one more year. And I told the entire organization, we need to fix this. Not for music, not for industry, but for the people that work here at this organization.” And then you say, “Look, I didn’t do it.” And so maybe everyone’s so enamored by your sacrifice that they keep you on a CEO for another year or maybe you lose your job and 17% get cut anyway, so I hear you. I’m not saying anything in perpetuity or forever, but what a weird world where someone says, “Sorry, I failed with the strategy I’m paid millions of dollars to execute. So sorry, everyone, you’re out.” I could see that a lot of people would read between the lines and say, “I had nothing to do with this decision making, but I’m paying the bill.”

Allison:

Yep, absolutely. I agree with you. And again, that’s why part of me really encourages people to look at their workplace from an objective perspective. It’s a workplace, it’s part of the economy, it’s part of driving the economy. It’s in a lot of ways, not always, but in a lot of ways is completely impersonal and transactional. At the end of the day, if this kind of stuff happens to a business, they have to find ways, whether it’s what you said with the CEO, there are a lot of different ways that companies navigate this kind of stuff, but, “We didn’t plan to lose money. The economy’s suffering.” Whatever the cause is, you will be looked at as an employee objectively you will be. So it’s a good idea to also look at your business, not in always. Again, I just want to clarify because you and I think could probably agree that you and I put a lot of heart and soul into our jobs, and a lot of people that we work with do. I’m not going to stop doing that just because my business is objectively a business, but I also know not to be too attached to that, and realistic.

Ren:

Yeah, I love that. I often, I tell the kids this all the time, it’s like, “Don’t let other people’s behavior change the person you want to be.” And so I think we talked about too, in the realm of quiet, quitting, I think the biggest solve for that is cultivating pride in yourself and your own work. And so, I refuse to perform lower because the environment says you should perform lower. So I think we agree with that. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I think though you can only really make that decision if you are coming into the circle, eyes wide open. And it’s interesting, as I love to do, I just cite movies and I just watched the new Netflix movie called The Killer, Michael Fassbender, and I think the guy who did the movie Se7en, I don’t know, super weird, lyrical kind of slow burn, but there’s a scene where Michael Fassbender and Tilda Swinton are talking at the end and it’s 2 hitpeople… (You see how inclusive I am?) …2 hitpeople talking about this and she’s reflecting on, “I know I deal in this business and I prepared myself for this moment. And no matter how many millions of times I’ve thought about it,” she’s like, “I’m surprised that I’m not ready.”

And it’s interesting, I think of CCLers, I think of people put their heart and soul into the work, who care about the people they work for, work with the people that we get to work for, and then we get hit with like, “Hey, the business,” we did, a lot of us had to experienced it during COVID where we had that massive reduction in force and it was just like, “Uh, me? This could happen to me, but I thought we were different.” Or no matter how many times I prepared myself, I didn’t think it was going to be me.

And I guess maybe that’s as we start to shift our attention to what people can do about this, whether you’re leading it or part of it’s how can you steel yourself for the eventuality? I love what you said there earlier; the business will eventually look at you objectively. They’re going to have to, regardless of how you’re not a number, the business is numbers. And at one point you’re going to be part of that calculation, so just recognize that as part of the data, I can give my heart and soul to CCL, and I am a number in the system and I don’t resent the system for it. I know it.

Allison:

Yeah, I mean, we talk a lot at CCL in different ways than you and I are talking today about navigating the system that you’re in and the system that we are in right now. Again, objectively it will be business first, and businesses have to do certain things to exist as businesses. So again, I don’t want to reiterate what you’ve already said and what I’ve already said, but I’m going to anyway. Is to broaden your knowledge as much as possible. I know that’s easier said than done for some of us, but be able to understand the components of business, and navigate the system that you are in the best ways that you can. Do your job, do it well, fulfill your commitments, and also understand what’s happening in the environment, in the economy, at your own workplace as best as you can. Sometimes that information’s not going to be available to you at your own workplace, but this also takes me back to media literacy and clickbait because this is part of it too. Understand when you’re looking at clickbait as well, which is maybe a whole other podcast, because that can create levels of anxiety that might not be real for your organization. If it’s an opinion piece, that means it’s an opinion piece.

Ren:

Right.

Allison:

Right. So just know that. And a headline that says employees aren’t quitting and it’s bloating the infrastructure for companies, that’s probably not true for the majority of companies. It might be for some, but that’s top of mind for me too.

Ren:

Well, as we head into the political cycle, misinformation is going to be a great opportunity for us to discuss, and continue to navigate what information is there, and what information is representative and real, and what information is there for conversation, which I think all of it needs to be had. And then 2, I think as the people manager, part of what you’ve got to do is be prepared for people to say, “I hear people aren’t firing,” or “Spotify just laid off this,” or, “The recession is still looming,” or how many months have I been hearing about the looming recession? It’s like all these things that someone walks into your office and says, “What does this mean for me?” So not only that, you, I think as a leader, as someone who’s creating buy-in cultivating motivation, create that environment for space to explore those things and boost your own literacy. And if you haven’t read the article, be like, “Oh, let me take a look at that thing.” And then maybe you’ll be able to synthesize a takeaway where it’s like it’s not all doom and oblivion. And maybe it’s just Cutter’s point of view of, “I work for a news agency and I got to build some copy here.”

Allison:

Right. Exactly. They have jobs too, right? They have jobs too. And I think too, your point too, if you’re a leader really, or even a person who’s not in a traditional leadership position, you could still be a leader. It’s inevitable that you probably will have to have a hard conversation at some point, whether that’s with a client, a customer, a colleague, if you’re a manager, with people that you manage, it might not be to the level of mass layoffs, it might not be that type of hard conversation, but developing the skill of having tough conversations will help you to be more effective, not only in these volatile in certain times that we’re in, but generally speaking, it’s going to help you be more effective and have more of a positive impact when things are difficult. And I think if I could give listeners one takeaway on that note, it would be to practice being direct with respect and empathy. So a reminder that, “Direct” does not mean cold necessarily. “Direct” means clear. And having the right levels of empathy and compassion. If you have to deliver bad news, you might practice either in your head, write it down, share it with a friend. You might practice it first, if this is not a skill that comes easily to you.

Ren:

And I love the practice and I love the repetition, and I love the note that you’re saying around just the social process of leadership. More often than not, the manager has to deliver the hard news, but then it’s all the people around that person that have to carry the weight of that decision. Your coworker who was just let go, and your survivor’s guilt as it were, or dealing with just that tension, and pain, and having to help navigate those difficult conversations. I think all you and I would mind too, like a manager or someone who’s actively engaged in the social process of leadership, something else you said, Allison, was, “Often, this stuff isn’t personal, even though it feels like the most personal thing that they’re ever going to experience.” But to that end, people are going to be going through a lot of emotions. And sometimes I find my job as a coworker, or even a boss is to be a sounding board for them. And my best space, try to seek some understanding or just listen, because those things are never going to be easy, especially when you find out like, “Hey, Merry Christmas. Also, you’re all gone.” And I know Christmas is a little centrist, but still, what an interesting message.

Allison:

Right? Happy holidays.

Ren:

Yeah. As a friend, how do you help there, you have too.

Allison:

Yeah, and I think I like what you just said too, because you’re right, these decisions don’t exist in a vacuum. Even if there’s a layoff at your company and you were not part of that layoff, there will still be a trickle down and there will still be an impact to those who are still at the organization.

And so with that, I’d love to direct our listeners to either LinkedIn or CCL’s website, rather than me spending another 20 minutes talking about it, because I know we’re out of time. But there are 4 steps, high level, to having those better conversations when there might be some difficulty happening at your workplace, or there’s trickle down from a layoff or just tough decisions that happen at a company. And the first one is what you just said, Ren, which is listening, and listening from a place of understanding, asking powerful questions. Maybe if it’s appropriate, offering some challenge to people’s ways of thinking or supporting them. And to your earlier point, which is establishing accountability and next steps. And those 4 tokens come from CCL’s Better Conversations Every Day, which you can find a lot of information on our website about. So I just think it’s a helpful place for people to look rather than us spending another 30 minutes talking about it, which I would love to.

Ren:

Yeah, that model is really important to me, because I find it so applicable.

And if you heard Allison talk about, what do you mean challenge their thinking, sometimes someone loses a job and they think that’s it for them. There’s nothing left for them. And that’s maybe the thinking that you can do in a challenging and supportive way. Be like, “Are you sure? Because you’re more than this work and you’ve likely got a lot to contribute.” And so, I think those are really great behaviors to build and work toward.

And maybe too, from my last one, it’s just prepare yourself and without any malice or judgment or condemnation on yourself or the organization. But when times are good, it’s easy to be complacent. And then when times are bad, it’s easy to be reactive. And I think that there’s some really intentional opportunities for you when times are good, be proactive. Don’t find yourself caught in that delusion that you thought it was always going to be this way. And when times are bad, because you’ve been proactive, what can it look like for you to not be complacent and rest on your laurels, but continue to build your own future? I can’t encourage people enough to remind yourself that your agency, your ability to take control of some of your own decisions might just be the only thing that can keep you grounded and feeling empowered in an environment that, as you said, is absolutely volatile, and uncertain, and chaotic, and ambiguous and sometimes full of anarchy.

And so, all you can do is ground yourself in your actions. And maybe too, I said it earlier, and that’s as I’m wandering to it, just don’t let anyone else change who you want to be. What’s your best self? And try to achieve that, regardless of the things around you. And I think that you might feel a little bit more empowered and not so lost by these things.

Allison:

Yes, that’s a great tip. And it comes back to what we say at CCL a lot, which is lead yourself first and stay grounded in who you are first. So I think that might be a good place for us to stop for today. And Ren, I look forward to seeing you in the new year. It’s going to be here before we know it. I will resist the temptation to be cliche. I’ll resist it for now. And let our listeners know, thanks for tuning in. You can find all of our podcasts and show notes on ccl.org. And a special thank you as always to the CCL team who works behind the scenes in getting our podcasts up and running, and we will look forward to tuning in with y’all in the new year. Thanks everyone.

Ren:

Thanks everybody. See you next time. You can find Allison on TikTok.

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• Case Study
• : Banking & Financial Services

SGX Group Partners With CCL to Boost Remote Worker Engagement by Building Internal Coaching Skills & Capacity

CLIENT:	Singapore Exchange Group (SGX)
LOCATION:	Singapore
SIZE:	1,100 employees

Client Profile & Challenge

Singapore Exchange (SGX Group) is Asia’s leading and trusted securities and derivatives market infrastructure, operating equity, fixed income, currency, and commodity markets to the highest regulatory standards. SGX is committed to facilitating economic growth in a sustainable manner, leveraging its roles as a key player in the ecosystem, a business, a regulator, and a listed company.

Based in Singapore, SGX is Asia’s most international multi-asset exchange, providing listing, trading, clearing, settlement, depository, and data services. The organization is globally recognized for its risk management and clearing capabilities.

When the COVID-19 pandemic sent SGX’s workers home, it transformed how the company operated day-to-day and raised new opportunities and challenges for senior executives and managers.

In an environment where the person-to-person connections were only virtual, company leaders sought guidance on how to better engage employees. Based on feedback from employee surveys, members of the company’s executive management team saw a need to be more accessible and inspiring in the difficult period of the pandemic. Frontline managers, in turn, needed to establish a sense of community and connection with their teams working from home to better engage employees.

SGX scaled up digital learning at work and sought to amplify employees’ ability to transfer that learning to business applications. For deeper learning to occur, employees need to feel psychologically safe and highly connected. For SGX, it was people managers who had the most potential to create a space where employees were engaged and felt safe to better learn and apply those learnings to the business.

Solution and Results

SGX partnered with The Center for Creative Leadership (CCL)® to develop a coaching mindset and skills that would increase the leadership impact of managers and executives. The initiative had 2 main goals:

1. Create a cadre of internal coaches who would provide ongoing coaching to employees.
2. Develop an impactful coaching experience for senior leaders and high potentials embedded in intensive development programs.

SGX viewed coaching as a transformative leadership tool because of how its benefits could ripple through the organization and reach all groups the company was concerned about: senior leaders, people managers, and frontline workers.

CCL drew on its Better Conversations and Coaching curriculum to train about 40 senior leaders as internal coaches. The SGX and CCL teams worked closely to handpick and identify senior leaders with a developmental focus.

Across 2 levels of Better Conversations and Coaching, each with about 30 hours of training time, participant coaches learned 4 foundational skills:

• Listen to understand.
• Ask powerful questions.
• Challenge and support.
• Establish next steps and accountability.

Participants learned to use these skills in their day-to-day interactions, as well as in formal coaching sessions. Participants also received small group coaching from more experienced coaches.

CCL and SGX partnered to foster an internal community of coaches at SGX who support each other. Coaches met every quarter to share success stories and learnings. These high-impact sessions deepened reflection and advanced the learning among the leader coaches.

This program has created significant coaching capacity among the senior leaders of the organization and generated valuable opportunities for mid-level and frontline leaders to receive coaching. The leader coaches started by coaching their direct teams; some leaders also coach cross-functionally.

The prestigious Management Associate program at SGX was another opportunity to leverage senior leaders’ coaching capacity. A set of leaders from the group of 40 were assigned as mentors to the Management Associates through a structured six-month program. The goal was to provide every management associate with an internal coaching and mentoring opportunity.

SGX has successfully cultivated a comprehensive learning environment that prioritizes coaching and development, thereby fostering a robust learning culture. This strategic approach has led to a significant increase in employee engagement survey results on learning & development, surpassing industry norms. The company’s commitment to learning and development has resulted in employees feeling more engaged at work.

As SGX strengthens its culture and implements new business initiatives, senior leaders are better prepared to act as change coaches and culture ambassadors to continue the SGX growth story.

Learn More

BY THE NUMBERS
A post-program employee survey showed measurable increases in favorable engagement scores:
75%	reported their managers keep them informed about what is happening at SGX.
67%	said management shows a genuine interest in employee career aspirations.
67%	said managers are great role models of SGX behaviors.
70%	believe their job performance is evaluated fairly.

Participants Say

“[The training] provided some tools and techniques in helping the coach to engage and allow a more productive engagement with the coachee. It is particularly useful as the roleplay reinforces what was taught.”

Program Participant

Wholesale Markets & Platforms

“Using an analogy, coaching is like learning how to cook a dish: You may know the basics after the course, but mastering the process is a lifelong journey. There is always room for improvement.” 

Program Participant

Human Resources

Partner With Us

We can work with you to create a customized solution that builds coaching capacity among your leaders, leading to a stronger coaching culture across your organization.

Learn More

View Printable Version

| What to Explore Next

A Coaching Culture’s Foundation Is Better Conversations

How to Coach People

| Related Solutions

Conversational Skills Training

Better Conversations & Coaching

Better Conversations Every Day

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The post SGX Group Partners With CCL to Boost Remote Worker Engagement by Building Internal Coaching Skills & Capacity appeared first on CCL.